David: So you said before that multiple blockchains are needer and that the different applications are different use cases, probaby you don’t feel that bitcoin has no role to play, and maybe some of the things that bitcoin does, aternity could do but maybe it shouldn’t do. What is in particular two or three use cases that you would highlight for aeternity?

David: 所以你之前说过需要多个区块链并且不同的应用程序有不同的用例，可能你不觉得比特币没有作用，也许比特币做的一些事情，aternity可以做或者不做。对于aeternity，你会强调哪些特别的两个或三个用例？

Yanni: First I would like to also state that I’m kind of like a bitcoin maximalist as well although we are working on aeternity blockchain. Because I believe there’s only one bitcoin, there should be always maximum only 21billion bitcoins. And it’s the bitcoin with the largest amout of proof of work. So the it has a simple btc all the other so-called bitcoins there no real bitcoins for me. And I really believe that bitcoin needs to have success or will have success also to strengthen all other crypto currencies and it’s the longest project in the field the first blockchain. You can say that has probably the largest network effects the biggest the strongest brand and so many people can’t pronounce ethereum even or write it spell it like. I was in a props article where ethereum was consistently spelled wrong for example. So with aeternity blockchain, I mean it’s obviously different than bitcoin. I believe although there’s only one bitcoin I don’t believe that there can be only one blockchain or one token for everything. So we need to have more innovation and I think aeternity blockchain what we’re doing there is really to create the next generation of smart contrart platform. Next after essentially ethereum. You could also say that bitcoin is a simple smart contract platform you can have scripts there in a fouth like language but the use cases which you asking for what I’m super interested in is real estate tokenization. So real estate currently is highly illiquid but everybody needs it every day, everybody using real estate and not very many people can actually afford to buy one apartment or a piece of real estate. But I think everybody should be able to afford to buy at least a fraction of a real estate, especially if they live in or if they’re using it on a day-to-day basis. I think it should be almost like a human right, that this market gets like more becomes more liquid that people can buy and own a real estate. So we’re working on a real estate tokenization project, so-called crypto castle project. It should be soon a website live on cryptocastle.org. It’a a castle in germany where we also hosted the first bitcoin conference, after the beginning of corona a couple months ago. Besides real estate tokenization, I think decentralized finnace is absolutely a great meaning people should have also access a modern financial tools all around the world, no matter where they are.

Yanni: 首先，我想申明的是，尽管我们正在研究aeternity区块链，但我也有点像比特币极简主义者。因为我相信只有一个比特币，它永远只有2100w个，它拥有最大的算力。所以对我来说只有一个简单的BTC，所有其他所谓的BTC对我来说都不是真正的BTC。我真的相信BTC需要取得成功，也会取得成功，以加强其他所有的加密货币。它是该领域时间最长的项目——第一个区块链，你可以说者可能是最大的网络效应，最大的品牌。对于以太坊，很多人甚至不会正确发音，也不会正确拼写，举一个例子，我在一篇文章中，ethereum的拼写一直是错误的。所以，对于aeternity区块链，我的意思是它和比特币有很大的区别，我虽然相信只有一个比特币，但是我不相信所有的东西都只能有一个区块链或者一个代币。因此，我们需要有更多的创新，我也认为我们正在做的aeternity区块链是创建一个真正的下一代智能合约平台，本质上是以太坊之后的下一个。你也可以说比特币是一个简单的智能合约平台，你可以在那里使用四种语言的脚本。对于你的问题，我非常感兴趣的用例是房地产代币化，因此，目前房地产的流动性极差，但每个人每天都需要它，每个人都在使用房地产，但实际上没有多少人买得起一套公寓或一块房地产。我认为每个人都应该能够负担得起购买至少一小部分房地产，特别是如果他们需要住在里面或者每天都在使用它。我认为这几乎应该像一项人权一样。这个市场变得越来越流动，人们可以购买和拥有房地产。所以我们正在研究一个房地产代币化项目，即所谓的加密城堡项目。它应该很快就会成为cryptocastle.org上的一个网站。这是德国的一座城堡，几个月前新冠病毒爆发后，我们还在这里举办了第一届比特币会议。除了房地产代币化，我认为去中心化金融绝对是一个很好的意义，这意味着人们无论身在何处，都应该可以在世界各地使用现代金融工具。

David: Is it correct to say that with the cryptocastle, for example you are competing with potential third-party developers rather than driving the platform, you are going into application area since….(yanni breaking)

David: 说使用加密城堡是否正确，例如，您正在与潜在的第三方开发人员竞争而不是驱动平台，因为您正在进入应用程序领域……(yanni打断)

Yanni: We were waiting for a killer use case and we also invested into a bunch of projects, probably around 25 projects or we’re giving them grants like even more grants or bounties to community members. Unfortunately none of there projects so far fulfilled the promise to become like a killer use for the aeternity blockchain. So we are driving this multiple like fronts. I mean very important for us is also the improvements of development tools for the 20 blockchains, I mean the blockchain launch already in 2018. There have been some modifications some upgrades to it by a scheduled hard fork approach. So some new features got lanuched. But fundamentally the blockchain itself hasn’t changed too much, but what’s really now is very important is to create a better development experience. So we want to have the best development experience possible and for this is also really great to have such projects which are building on top of the blockchain. So that we suffer from the same pain which other developers are feeling. So that we can fix these easier with you.

Yanni: 我们一直在等待一个杀手级用例，我们还投资了一系列项目，可能大约有 25 个项目，或者我们正在向他们提供赠款，比如向社区成员提供更多的赠款或赏金。不幸的是，到目前为止，没有一个项目实现了成为aeternity区块链杀手级应用的承诺。所以我们正在推动这多个类似的战线，对我们来说非常重要的是20个区块链的开发工具的改进。Aeternity区块链在2018年推出后通过预定的硬分叉方法对其进行了一些修改和一些升级。但是从根本上来说区块链本身并没有太大的变化，现在真正重要的是创造更好的开发体验。因此，我们希望拥有尽可能最好的开发体验，所以拥有这样建立在区块链之上的项目也是非常棒的。这样我们就遭受了其他开发人员所感受到的同样的痛苦。我们就可以更轻松地与你一起解决这些问题。(3k.chain：虽然这些项目都没有成为杀手级应用，顺便带着ae出圈。但是，因为这些项目在ae区块链上开发过程中，我们感受到了aepp开发人员的痛苦，我们改进很多开发工具，这些经历和结果也是非常宝贵的。)

David: Yes that’s right. So how does your roadmap compare with, for example an ethereum roadmap in terms of scalability, ethereum is going towards proof of stake. How do you see those two areas ?

David: 恩，那就对了。那么，在可扩展性方面，你的路线图与以太坊路线图相比如何，以太坊正在走向PoS。您如何看待这两个领域(PoW PoS)？

Yanni: So I generally believe that proof of work is a very useful mechanism, and we’re working on the hyperchain consensus model and with this new consensus model, everybody will be able to launch an aeternity style blockchain being secured by a proof-of-work parent chain. We’re gonna first probably try to go for bitcoin. We’re gonna create a new aeternity blockchain which is hooked into the bitcoin blockchain. So reusing the proof-of-work from the bitcoin blockchain to secure a proof of stake child chain you could say. And this child chain can then have also further child chains. So arranging them in a tree and these chains exchanging value through cross-chain atomic swaps. I believe that is the most elegant way to scale and to bring crypto or tokens or modern financial instruments to all the population of this world. But work it’s the problem is that if you have a low market cap the security is also low, so with the pow blocokchain the security is actually a function of the time passed or the amount of work done which is related to time. and we had there was an attack on some exchanges last december, so 10 mouths ago, and this caused some problems since then a checkpoint rolling checkpoint mechanism was also implemented. But it’s not exactly how we want it to be meeting with the new hyperchians consensus, we will let people or the users vote whether they want to move their tokens or have essentially also tokens on this on a new hyperchain being called. We don’t call it anymore blockchain it’s inspired by a blockchain but it’s……(David breaking)

Yanni: 我普遍认为工作量证明是一个非常有用的机制，我们正在研究超链共识模型，有了这个新的共识模型，每个人都可以推出一个由工作量证明的父链保护的、具备aeternity风格的区块链。我们首先可能会尝试使用比特币(作为父链)，我们将创建一个连接到BTC区块链的新aeternity区块链。因此，可以重复使用BTC区块链中的工作量证明来确保Pos子链。然后这个子链还可以有更多的子链。因此，将它们排列成一棵树，这些链通过跨链原子交换交换价值。我相信这是扩展并将加密或代币或现代金融工具带给世界上所有人口的最优雅的方式。但PoW的问题是—如果你的市值低，安全性也低。所以对于 pow 区块链，安全性实际上是时间的函数，或者与时间相关。去年12月，也就是10个月前，我们的一些交易所遭到了攻击(针对ae的51%攻击)，这造成了一些问题，此后还实施了检查点滚动检查点机制(100区块不可回滚)。但这并不是我们希望它与新的超链一致的方式，我们将让人们或用户投票决定他们是否想移动他们的代币，还是在一个新的超链上也有代币。我们不再称它为区块链，它的灵感来自于区块链，但它是……